Presented as an FYI, well written and should be forwarded to those who doubt they are part of the "problem"
www.ancestry.com/library/...e/5828.asp
www.ancestry.com/library/...e/5828.asp
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Discussing the Pitfalls of Genealogy |
Genealogy's contribution to Identity theft
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 Unregistered(d) |
Genealogy's contribution to Identity theft |
Lead | |
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Posts: 0 (06/08/02 12:27:50) |
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Unregistered(d) |
Plagiarism and genealogy | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/08/02 23:25:54) |
Here's another one along the same lines -
www.ancestry.com/library/...l/1969.asp Oddly enough, both of these articles appear at Ancestry (which is to plagiarism what Hotmail is to spam). |
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Unregistered(d) |
Ancestry et al - please READ your contributor posts! | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/09/02 04:03:07) |
Virgil,
One written in 2000, one in 2002 and both by people with credentials and knowledge of Genealogy. Makes ya sit back and wonder if Ancestry ever takes the time to read what their contributors post, doesn't it? Does Ancestry, et al even know how ignorant and incompetent they are appearing? What a bad reputation they are building within our community? They may make a haul with cash inflow from the Newbies, but they lose credibility as fast as they can count their dollars. At best, I credit them with a "free speech" policy, but it sits next to the "publish all the garbage and let God sort it out" corporate mentality. This type of article (with many authors) now arrives on email lists from many Genealogy groups. Many re-written with updates and citations. Variations on the same theme. But all ALERTS to those of us who care. The good news - they come from people/groups who are also part of the educational arms of Genealogy. It looks like the natives are not sitting quietly; we are refusing to let these issues die and keep hammering at Ancestry et al for what they are doing. As soon as these subjects become standard core for Seminars and Conferences, we might begin to see some light at the end of the tunnel. Gentech Conference (Phx, AZ Jan 2003) could be a perfect place to get this issue on the agenda. If not, maybe those of us in attendance can plan an informal method of instruction time?  But then...who drags the offenders to the sessions and makes them pay attention? Hummm....somehow a picture of a horse at water comes into mind. YW |
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Unregistered(d) |
Temptation.... | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/09/02 06:19:37) |
Hi Yankee,
Gee, maybe we should contribute the Drivethru Genie 2001 concept to Ancestry and see if they publish it..... 
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Unregistered(d) |
DTG - 2001 | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/10/02 06:32:04) |
Jeff,
What a wonderful idea ! Your article was brilliant, although the satire will probably escape 99% of their users. Please let me know if you manage to evade their "Genie Police" and get it into their archives! I think it is possible, since it is becoming obvious that THEY never read anything they publish. Will gladly send copies off to all on my lists, with a "must read" notation. Muchos Giggles, YW |
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daveatgensuck |
Again? | ||
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Posts: 67 (06/13/02 10:45:37) |
You guys know I don't pull punches on Ancy.com but can we please have a single thread that isn't populated by two individuals posting the party line? I mean it.
If we had a thread on this forum about the genealogy of french toast, it would consist of the initial discussion, perhaps an interesting response followed by one or two individuals posting why Ancestry.com has hurt them personally and how it is that they are ruining online genealogy for everyone. Actually the response might start off about how Ancestry.com has harmed online genealogy but from there it would morph into how online genealogy just plain sucks and then into how it is that Ancestry.com is the root of all evil in the entire world. This is extremely boring. The subject was FRENCH TOAST! How is that an invitation to write what you don't like about Ancestry? I see that the initial link in this thread is on Ancestry's site and obviously posting, for example, the CA birth index might provide thieves with too much data, but the issue is identity theft. Can't you guys trade e-mail addresses? |
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Unregistered(d) |
Hurray for Dave! | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/13/02 11:19:25) |
Thank you Dave for saying what has needed to be said for ever so long. The people who use GenSuck's site to bash Ancestry.com day-after-day is wearisome and serves no purpose. You are right on when you suggest that they e-mail each other personally until their personal issues with Ancestry and Genealogy.com are thoroughly spent!
Now, for the rest of us, lets find some new topics of discussion that may actually be meaningful to most of the participants at this site. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Boo for Dave | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/13/02 12:13:05) |
Possibly the reason you see so much about Ancestry is that Ancestrys practices leave a lot to be desired and they are a huge online presence. If a majority of people decide that incest is proper, does that make it right? Should it be condemned once and then left alone? Doubtful. Ancestry includes articles about identity theft and plagiarism on their website right along with data that contributes to both problems. The CA birth index is a moot point its gone. Would have been nice if you applied the same standards to persons running for office who used this forum to trash the oppositiontalk about transparent and boring.
Could it be Dave is bored with the whole concept of inviting comment on what makes genealogy suck? The invitation is in the title, Dave. You wouldnt see these kind of comments at the EverythingIsWonderful board; so if thats the sort of discussion you like, you should have created that forum and not this one. Dont complain because people have unresolved issues with giant immovable objects. |
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Unregistered(d) |
For Dave | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/14/02 03:46:13) |
Dave the comment about the sticking to a subject thread was well made, but I am at a loss to understand your anger at a few of us who post here regularly.
Sorry Dave..but I guess I misunderstood the "Gensuck" concept. Somehow the Gensuck "Calls them as I see's them" goal has been lost (for quite some time). But - It's your Party and your rules. If you want apologists for trash-genealogy I'm sure you will fill this board with replies more to your purpose. Adios - am off to find a forum devoted to bringing Genealogy BACK to it's roots of commitment to good research. Will someone please email me if Gensuck decides to return to it's original premise of slapping the McGenie's of the world? YW |
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Unregistered(d) |
Identity theft & online genealogy | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/14/02 05:07:33) |
I have NEVER heard of anyone using online information to steal an identity. I have heard of bank personell, DMV, State officials, etc.. selling private information to others (stealing info from government files), etc. I do genealogy lookup requests for free. This is a service for those who can't get to local county offices. Most identity thefts are in mass quantities. It is easier to steal credit card info from mail trucks, mail boxes, etc.. than it would be to look up a birth, check to see if there is a death listed, get the ss# from the death index (which can often be wrong), etc. Much easier to pay a person at the dept of motor vehicals ten dollars a head for a disk full of names of real people all in a nutshell... you know the info is correct. Don't think it happens all the time? It does. the post office even sells your information. Try this... next time you see a catalog request... fill it out... use a bogus middle initial....
in about two months you will get all kinds of offers (including credit card offers) with that bogus middle initial in it. We even replied to one.. got our home refinanced... had to keep reminding the company of the correct middle initial.. Also, anyone can get a copy of your credit report.. and that has ALL needed info on it. My daughter was a mortgage broker assistant... did it from home.. can look up credit reports online for a yearly fee. Your birth, marriage, voter info, etc. is all public information. Most of the things you do is reported in a newspaper somewhere. Many credit card companies & telemarketing companies hire prisoners (so does the state) to handle the input of data, phone calls to potential customers (telemarketers), etc. These prisoners have access to your information... Your information is out there for the taking ... just because you applied for credit, a job or a driver's license... denying access to online death & birth information is closing the gate after the horse has already gotten out. Marge Campbell |
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Stelis |
People, let's get our minds in focus... | ||
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Posts: 325 (06/14/02 12:08:41) |
The best response against identify theft is to clobber the crooks, and punish them very hard. We need to pass laws that give our law enforcement better tools and easier access to catch the criminals. And then make it very difficult for convicts to walk away scott free.
It totally sends the wrong message when people suggest that we should modify the way we use the Internet, or change the way we live our lives. We, the law-abiding citizens are not at fault. The reason why we had to beef-up security at our airports, is because we can't seem to catch the criminals. We haven't even caught the person sending Anthrax through the post office. If we could catch the criminals, and apply swift and severe punishment, we wouldn't feel so paranoid. Bills like this SB1614 Access to Public Records, which is currently underway in the California State Legislature, is totally the back-ass-wards way of going about it. Instead of making it tougher on the criminals, they are making it tougher on the law-abiding citizens. Yes, Ancestry.com is making it easier for criminals to access personal information. But don't blame Ancestry. Blame the criminals. It seems lately, Americans are more preoccupied at blaming our President for the Sept 11 terrorist attacks. People seem to have written off Osama Bin Laden, and have switched to accusing George Bush for "allowing" the attacks to occur. Why aren't we blaming Bin Laden? Why aren't we blaming Al Qaeda? The reason why is because we can't catch them. People need to vent their frustration. So, they blame our President instead. They sue the airline companies. They sue the company who built the World Trade Centers. We're such wimps! So don't blame Ancestry.com for building a Gedcom library. Blame the people who uploaded personally sensitive information on living people. Blame the people who are committing identity theft. Steve
co-host, GenSuck.com |
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Unregistered(d) |
Like I said..... | ||
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Posts: 0 (09/30/02 10:10:15) |
I already said this on another board on this site, but, I'll say it again: anyone with a listed phone number is ALREADY on the net, and their name and physical address can be had by anyone. Also, if you have ever had a website - even one that is no longer active, or you've ever posted to a message board and have given your real name, anyone can find it. Once you've been online for a few years, there is bound to be SOMETHING out there with your name on it. I found a message board post made by my sister's then-interent boyfriend (now her husband) by simply typing his name into my browser and hitting Enter. He didn't like it much when I told him about it, but, hey; he's the one who put it out there, right?
My point is, it really doesn't matter how careful you are; you're going to, at some point, leave some trace of yourself online. If you're the sort of timid ninny who is afraid he/she is going to be robbed of your life savings by some unseen thief, then don't use the web at all. Ive been using it for over six years and have had my full name out there on various servers, here and there, and I've no trouble at all. On the other hand, I DID get ripped off by a business whose product I purchased over the phone. Despite all the scare stories out there, you are safer posting your credit card number to a secure server page than you are in giving your card number to some punk kid waiter at a restaurant, who can easily jot down your name, number, etc. |
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Unregistered(d) |
you go girl | ||
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Posts: 0 (06/15/05 18:46:06) |
Yankee you said it right on the nose. Everywhere you turn to find information that is public knowlege now how big dollar signs all over it.
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Unregistered(d) |
Identity Theft, using genealogy sites and obituaries | ||
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Posts: 0 (08/10/05 05:10:39) |
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rottenralf |
Re: Identity Theft, using genealogy sites and obituaries | ||
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Posts: 142 (08/10/05 08:54:54) |
Criminals and spies have been stealing the identity of dead people for centuries. Newspapers (obituaries) and cemeteries is the usual mode of operation. This article states they use genealogical materials, but never actual proves the link. And certainly never shows that genealogical materials aid in identity theft of living people.
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Unregistered(d) |
Forget theft. How about a basic right? | ||
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Posts: 0 (08/10/05 11:47:05) |
While I think there is a very great possibility of someone using irresponsibly posted materials in the theft of an identity, let's change the view a bit.
What happened to the basic right of privacy? There's not much Ancestry, Genealogy.com, Gencircles etc can do about it as long as people continue to post and print other <i> living </i> folks personal information in an irresponsible manner, violating those folks' basic right to privacy. The problem is, I see very few people in this gedcom oriented society saying anything about it as they gleefully collect gedcoms and merge them into their own data. Perhaps the companies involved will get the picture when those who see someone ask for "everything you've got" object - and when we continue to fill their email boxes with complaints when we find information on the living posted by someone who may just possibly be a step-half-30th cousin 45 times removed. Perhaps government entitites will get the message about responsible release of information when enough complaints are filed. But be careful in filing those complaints. You may also get what you wish for and find that no longer can you get great aunt Tillie's birth certificate even though she has been dead for 85 years. And you just know that birth certificate contains the one maiden name you've looked for so long. It's a quandry. But the first step is our own and that's to self-police. As long as we encourage the sharing of gedcoms en masse, nothing is going to improve. Jackie |
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rottenralf |
Re: Forget theft. How about a basic right? | ||
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Posts: 142 (08/10/05 13:05:55) |
"What happened to the basic right of privacy?"
According to: straylight.law.cornell.ed...ivacy.html straylight.law.cornell.ed...icity.html straylight.law.cornell.ed...ation.html Even the wholesale posting of gedcoms of living persons does not violate any rights of privacy, especially if the information is gotten from public records. Even the the laws on information on children seems to address the matter of gathering information FROM children only. Even the expectation of 'a right to be left alone', is something arising from the last century, not an expectation this country was built on. This is not a "rights" issue but an "ethics" issue on which there is not a clear concensus within the genealogy community. And the issue is a "problem" that has arisen only over the past 10-15 years. Before that the publication of info on living people without their consent was the norm, both in genealogy books, as well as government publications (this is backed up by going to the shelves of any genealogy library). It seems to be the publication of the material online that has gotten some people upset. Some states and provinces have probably passed some legislation giving individuals more privacy rights, but most of them deal with financial and credit information, and not vital records or events. |
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GenuineBlob |
Re: Forget theft. How about a basic right? | ||
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Posts: 25 (08/10/05 15:56:59) |
Quote: Were you referring to the United States Constitution, or one of the later Amendments in the Bill of Rights? If so, where exactly is this Basic Right to be found? I always knew that our early public representatives were very forward-thinking for their time; I just didn't realize that they had dealt with internet genealogy 215+ years before it even existed. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Right to privacy | ||
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Posts: 0 (08/10/05 21:17:59) |
Neither. Did I say Constitutional or a guarantee of the Bill of Rights? Too many jump to too many conclusions.
However, while not a constitutional right nor one guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, the Supreme Court has guaranteed that right in numerous decisions on tort law and many times has cited the "right to privacy" as an extension of the Fourth Amendment. As for the tort law The Restatement, Second of Torts 652A provides that "one who invades the right to privacy of another is subject to liability for the resulting harm to the interests of the other. The right to privacy is invaded by the unreasonable intrusion upon the seclusion of another[.]" We can argue until the cows come home if their extending that admendment is correct or if their rulings of a right to privacy are correct interpretation of tort statutes, but nevertheless, they have voiced their opinions on the subject. The Supreme Court has broadly defined privacy as the right of the individual to control the dissemination of information about oneself. And I think this is what we've all been talking about when discussing putting information about the living on the web. If it's public record, you may indeed have problems stopping it. But someof what I find included about the living is not public record - nor should it be of that much interest to most genealogists. Yes include your notes about your mom, dad, brother and sister in your own genealogy - but if they are living, purge them before sending that gen on to the next 5th cousin 4 times removed. Jackie |
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Unregistered(d) |
re: Right to privacy | ||
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Posts: 0 (08/22/05 11:05:47) |
Ouch, Jackie. I think you might have stunned a troll into silence.
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